Post by Spacko vom Dienst on Jul 18, 2014 2:19:03 GMT 1
Hey, i thought we need some schedule since its a bit messy in skype. If you think this is too much or inadequate, feel free to edit this thread/post in any way you like I just thought it would be nice to bring the results of our skype discussions to "paper" somehow...
To clear up: I don't want to replace skype, this is just for a good overview of all aspects and opinions in "bigger" cases...
1. Cause/Incident
Colt's petition/complaint about behavious during the league match Dream Team vs Dangerous Cacti
Thread: spacesports.freeforums.net/thread/127/official-petition
Abusive behavior/Insulting/Disrespectful Behaviour
2. Players Involved/In question
Colt
Insigne
gotze
tukk
3. Facts/Chatlogs/Replays
Chatlogs posted in the thread: spacesports.freeforums.net/thread/127/official-petition [Are legit; Source: replay]
Replay: www.haxballtube.com/watch/1aa308a83e
Relevant/Significant Transscripts from the replay:
Gotze: vraiment t'es un btard jte pisse dessus
Translation: You are really a bastard i ... on top. [comment spacko: i suppose it's meaning i piss on you, im not 100% sure though, but 97% ]
Gotze: à la fin passe les droits jle ban lui
Translation: Give me rights at the end i'll ban him
Gotze: tous des fdp ces ukrainiennes
Translation: All sons of bitches the Ukrainians
Tukk: au pire pg ces enculés ont + de lag
Transl: In worst case those assholes have more lag
All mentioned statements were made in french, so it was clear that the opponent team (e.g. Colt) cannot understand it.
Out of language fairness, a transscript of the kyrillic statements at the discussion, translated with google, but there is NOTHING signifcant in it:
tif: Им то что? Пинга боятся? - tif: They what? Ping afraid?
Colt: пинга боятся - Colt: ping afraid
Colt: говорят что по правилам один спект- Colt: say that the rules of one spectrum
Modest: блин, одни французы и ещё наглеют- Modest: pancake, one French and even pluck
levski: кажется они не передумают- levski: it seems they do not change their minds
Modest: надо на разборки идти - Modest: it is necessary to go to the dismantling
Modest: если кто из админов есть- Modest: if one of the admins there
Домингос: Путин О_О - Putin
Modest: где Путин? )) - Modest: where Putin? ))
Modest: о, хорошая мысль - Modest: Oh, good idea
Colt: похоже игра не состоится - Colt: похоже игра не состоится
levski: придется уступить, я думаю - levski: have to concede, I think
Colt: говорит щас кикать будет - Colt: says right now, will kick [Comment Spacko: apparently he is referring to Insigne's statement that Insigne will kick them]
levski: только время тянем - levski: only time we pull
Colt: я думаю надо всем уходить - Colt: I think everyone should go
levski: смысл? - levski: meaning?
Colt: я читал правила - там такого не было - Colt: I have read the rules - there was no such
Colt: они гонят - Colt: they chase
Colt: вы ведь тоже читали? - Colt: you, too, read it?
Modest: уделали всё-таки? ) - Modest: did the same? )
Colt: вроде соглашаются - Colt: kind of agree
Modest: неужели - Modest: do
levski: блядь, на их хосте играем - levski: damn, playing on their host
levski: пиздец - levski: fucked
Modest: я уж думал, совсем паутиной мозг зарос у народа - Modest: I really thought the brain was covered with cobwebs quite the people
Modest: левски, напиши да и го ) - Modest: Levski, write and let go)
Colt: он просит ответа готовы ли мы - Colt: he asks if we are ready to answer
Colt: лев пишешь? - Colt: a lion write? Modest: и я пшу ))
Modest: и я пшу )) - Modest: I pshu))
No hard insults from Insigne, if you're interested in the rest of the conversation, please watch the replay.
Colt and his team was being polite at any time.
4. Short Summary of Facts
Gotze was quite insulting and showing disrespect for Colt and his team.
Tukk made one (maybe minor) insult.
Insigne wasn't quite polite, but he used no hard insults.
Colt did not insult in any way.
After the initial discussion/dispute, the game was played normally without any incidents.
A. Deciding on who acted correctly and who acted against the rules/Views of every Admin
Please answer your opinion in this thread or edit this thread and out it in here (always remember to copy your text so it doesn't get lost if it's edited by two people simultanously):
Vida: Ok Im going to make some review, it has more facts. About the kicking people who are only spects - I know they were arguing about it after the match (or during the match idk I was just on the forum at the moment) on shoutbox and I said them all Insigne hasnt truth and he is talking bullshits. And Gotze said me and to Cacti team in the room that its in the rules. I said this is a bullshit too. So they tried to break a rule again and convince about own rules the other team. Ukrainians/Russians were gentle. I agree that Frenchmen made psychological pressure on the other team with banning/kicking players for no reason and it could affect the game. But Cacti team should have asked about new host or reschedule the match - NO REPLAY the match. And Colt overestimated his petition even if I agree with some things.
Sanctions to Dream Team for disrespect and rules violations: Insigne is unfair-play player which made some things in past too, but there is no evidence he made something bad in this case. Tukk said just 1 quote with "bad words" = its nothing tbh, maybe just warning. Gotze was more disrespectful and he insulted Cacti team and he should get a penalty. Since we know about this behaviour, we should punish it and in addition to this we have our own rules which we made, if we dont punish Gotze, we dont play via the rules made by ourself and we piss of on our rules. + Dream Team (captain Insi) should make public apologies as for whole team for trying to break the rules again and for disrespect and also that they have read the rules again so the behaviour wont happen again.
lorZ: I sent a message to Colt asking him how serious was his thread. This is his answer: "about apologies - 10; about regaming - 2; about personal sanctions - 5". In my opinion, there is no reason to play a rematch. I wouldn't punish Gotze because of what he said, because Colt was only accusing Tukk. The research and translation job done by Spacko was great and found out that Gotze was the one that could deserve punishment, but he wasn't accused of anything by Colt. And I'm afraid this would a set precedent that would force us to watch every Match Replay and translate every non-english word to find out if the players are being correct or insulting the other team. So I say no to punishing Gotze, but instead we should give him a warning. About the apologies, I only like them when people really want to apology. From what I read in that thread, Insigne doesn't think he did anything wrong and so his apologies wouldn't mean anything.
REPLY by Vida: As I said yesterday - "I have been thinking about this too when I have written with Spacko here (on skype)... But I think we dont have to watch all the games. Since we know about this behaviour, we should punish it OR if not - we arent playing via the rules made by ourself. We dont have to overlook every game BUT if some player brings us the information and its true... If we dont know about it, then we cant do anything." "We are the "court" and we know by proposer about breaking the rule. We dont have to find it, the players can if they want and its true, and it doesnt matter who found it or if Colt noticed it... We just make the decision about the case which others ("proposers" - Colt or Spacko too) said to us"
Do I need to repost my example with speeding?
SanRoo: No reason for a regame. Warn Tukk and (Insigne) for their behave. Give Gotze a 2-3 Game-Ban for his disrespectful against DC.
A:
Spacko vom Dienst: I think the pressure mentioned by Colt is not much given, since the game was played normally and no one got banned or kicked. But members of Dreamteam were quite insulting and kind of disrespectful.
In my opinion: Gotze was majorly insulting and disrespectful, and therefore action should be taken against him.
Tukk was insulting only at one time, but also tried to clear the quarrel about the rule up, if at all, some minor action should be taken against him.
The dispute about the rule/false rule was in my opinion not of any signifcance to the game's outcome, the game was played normally without any incidents.
bonfire: Colt is kind of overreacting and I think most of what he wrote was "for the lulz" (picture on the end of his post took the cake) but it is what it is - Dream Team players were rude. Insigne was being selfish, yes, for wanting other players to leave so his team could have better ping (instead of searching maybe for other hosts so they would have been equal), and he is, as far as I know, easy on the trigger sometimes and I've seen several players in the shoutbox arguing with him, but I don't really think that he deserves punishment. Funny thing is, Colt is demanding apologies and sanctions only for Insigne and Tukk, even though Gotze was the one that really qualifies for sanctions for insulting. In my opinion, overall, it did not affect the game so it doesn't have to be replayed, but I do think Gotze should receive a penalty for his actions.
Everyone agrees: NOT YET
B. Suggestions on Sanctions/Punishment/[If we can't agree: POLL/Vote]
Suggestions are based on rule abuse discussed in A
A first
Everyone agrees: NOT YET
C. Deciding on Sanctions/[If we can't agree: POLL/Vote]
A, B first
Everyone agrees: NOT YET
D. Statement to be published
We can also do this quick and dirty in Skype...
A, B, C first
Statement ready to be published/Everyone agrees: NOT YET
To clear up: I don't want to replace skype, this is just for a good overview of all aspects and opinions in "bigger" cases...
- 1. Cause/Incident
- 2. Players Involved/In question
- 3. Facts/Chatlogs/Replays
- 4. Short Summary of Facts
- A. Deciding on who acted correctly and who acted against the rules/Views of every Admin
- B. Suggestions on Sanctions/Punishment/[If we can't agree: POLL/Vote]
- C. Deciding on Sanctions/[If we can't agree: POLL/Vote]
- [Eventually] D. Statement to be published
1. Cause/Incident
Colt's petition/complaint about behavious during the league match Dream Team vs Dangerous Cacti
Thread: spacesports.freeforums.net/thread/127/official-petition
Abusive behavior/Insulting/Disrespectful Behaviour
2. Players Involved/In question
Colt
Insigne
gotze
tukk
3. Facts/Chatlogs/Replays
Chatlogs posted in the thread: spacesports.freeforums.net/thread/127/official-petition [Are legit; Source: replay]
Replay: www.haxballtube.com/watch/1aa308a83e
Relevant/Significant Transscripts from the replay:
Gotze: vraiment t'es un btard jte pisse dessus
Translation: You are really a bastard i ... on top. [comment spacko: i suppose it's meaning i piss on you, im not 100% sure though, but 97% ]
Gotze: à la fin passe les droits jle ban lui
Translation: Give me rights at the end i'll ban him
Gotze: tous des fdp ces ukrainiennes
Translation: All sons of bitches the Ukrainians
Tukk: au pire pg ces enculés ont + de lag
Transl: In worst case those assholes have more lag
All mentioned statements were made in french, so it was clear that the opponent team (e.g. Colt) cannot understand it.
Out of language fairness, a transscript of the kyrillic statements at the discussion, translated with google, but there is NOTHING signifcant in it:
tif: Им то что? Пинга боятся? - tif: They what? Ping afraid?
Colt: пинга боятся - Colt: ping afraid
Colt: говорят что по правилам один спект- Colt: say that the rules of one spectrum
Modest: блин, одни французы и ещё наглеют- Modest: pancake, one French and even pluck
levski: кажется они не передумают- levski: it seems they do not change their minds
Modest: надо на разборки идти - Modest: it is necessary to go to the dismantling
Modest: если кто из админов есть- Modest: if one of the admins there
Домингос: Путин О_О - Putin
Modest: где Путин? )) - Modest: where Putin? ))
Modest: о, хорошая мысль - Modest: Oh, good idea
Colt: похоже игра не состоится - Colt: похоже игра не состоится
levski: придется уступить, я думаю - levski: have to concede, I think
Colt: говорит щас кикать будет - Colt: says right now, will kick [Comment Spacko: apparently he is referring to Insigne's statement that Insigne will kick them]
levski: только время тянем - levski: only time we pull
Colt: я думаю надо всем уходить - Colt: I think everyone should go
levski: смысл? - levski: meaning?
Colt: я читал правила - там такого не было - Colt: I have read the rules - there was no such
Colt: они гонят - Colt: they chase
Colt: вы ведь тоже читали? - Colt: you, too, read it?
Modest: уделали всё-таки? ) - Modest: did the same? )
Colt: вроде соглашаются - Colt: kind of agree
Modest: неужели - Modest: do
levski: блядь, на их хосте играем - levski: damn, playing on their host
levski: пиздец - levski: fucked
Modest: я уж думал, совсем паутиной мозг зарос у народа - Modest: I really thought the brain was covered with cobwebs quite the people
Modest: левски, напиши да и го ) - Modest: Levski, write and let go)
Colt: он просит ответа готовы ли мы - Colt: he asks if we are ready to answer
Colt: лев пишешь? - Colt: a lion write? Modest: и я пшу ))
Modest: и я пшу )) - Modest: I pshu))
No hard insults from Insigne, if you're interested in the rest of the conversation, please watch the replay.
Colt and his team was being polite at any time.
4. Short Summary of Facts
Gotze was quite insulting and showing disrespect for Colt and his team.
Tukk made one (maybe minor) insult.
Insigne wasn't quite polite, but he used no hard insults.
Colt did not insult in any way.
After the initial discussion/dispute, the game was played normally without any incidents.
A. Deciding on who acted correctly and who acted against the rules/Views of every Admin
Please answer your opinion in this thread or edit this thread and out it in here (always remember to copy your text so it doesn't get lost if it's edited by two people simultanously):
Vida: Ok Im going to make some review, it has more facts. About the kicking people who are only spects - I know they were arguing about it after the match (or during the match idk I was just on the forum at the moment) on shoutbox and I said them all Insigne hasnt truth and he is talking bullshits. And Gotze said me and to Cacti team in the room that its in the rules. I said this is a bullshit too. So they tried to break a rule again and convince about own rules the other team. Ukrainians/Russians were gentle. I agree that Frenchmen made psychological pressure on the other team with banning/kicking players for no reason and it could affect the game. But Cacti team should have asked about new host or reschedule the match - NO REPLAY the match. And Colt overestimated his petition even if I agree with some things.
Sanctions to Dream Team for disrespect and rules violations: Insigne is unfair-play player which made some things in past too, but there is no evidence he made something bad in this case. Tukk said just 1 quote with "bad words" = its nothing tbh, maybe just warning. Gotze was more disrespectful and he insulted Cacti team and he should get a penalty. Since we know about this behaviour, we should punish it and in addition to this we have our own rules which we made, if we dont punish Gotze, we dont play via the rules made by ourself and we piss of on our rules. + Dream Team (captain Insi) should make public apologies as for whole team for trying to break the rules again and for disrespect and also that they have read the rules again so the behaviour wont happen again.
lorZ: I sent a message to Colt asking him how serious was his thread. This is his answer: "about apologies - 10; about regaming - 2; about personal sanctions - 5". In my opinion, there is no reason to play a rematch. I wouldn't punish Gotze because of what he said, because Colt was only accusing Tukk. The research and translation job done by Spacko was great and found out that Gotze was the one that could deserve punishment, but he wasn't accused of anything by Colt. And I'm afraid this would a set precedent that would force us to watch every Match Replay and translate every non-english word to find out if the players are being correct or insulting the other team. So I say no to punishing Gotze, but instead we should give him a warning. About the apologies, I only like them when people really want to apology. From what I read in that thread, Insigne doesn't think he did anything wrong and so his apologies wouldn't mean anything.
REPLY by Vida: As I said yesterday - "I have been thinking about this too when I have written with Spacko here (on skype)... But I think we dont have to watch all the games. Since we know about this behaviour, we should punish it OR if not - we arent playing via the rules made by ourself. We dont have to overlook every game BUT if some player brings us the information and its true... If we dont know about it, then we cant do anything." "We are the "court" and we know by proposer about breaking the rule. We dont have to find it, the players can if they want and its true, and it doesnt matter who found it or if Colt noticed it... We just make the decision about the case which others ("proposers" - Colt or Spacko too) said to us"
Do I need to repost my example with speeding?
SanRoo: No reason for a regame. Warn Tukk and (Insigne) for their behave. Give Gotze a 2-3 Game-Ban for his disrespectful against DC.
A:
Spacko vom Dienst: I think the pressure mentioned by Colt is not much given, since the game was played normally and no one got banned or kicked. But members of Dreamteam were quite insulting and kind of disrespectful.
In my opinion: Gotze was majorly insulting and disrespectful, and therefore action should be taken against him.
Tukk was insulting only at one time, but also tried to clear the quarrel about the rule up, if at all, some minor action should be taken against him.
The dispute about the rule/false rule was in my opinion not of any signifcance to the game's outcome, the game was played normally without any incidents.
bonfire: Colt is kind of overreacting and I think most of what he wrote was "for the lulz" (picture on the end of his post took the cake) but it is what it is - Dream Team players were rude. Insigne was being selfish, yes, for wanting other players to leave so his team could have better ping (instead of searching maybe for other hosts so they would have been equal), and he is, as far as I know, easy on the trigger sometimes and I've seen several players in the shoutbox arguing with him, but I don't really think that he deserves punishment. Funny thing is, Colt is demanding apologies and sanctions only for Insigne and Tukk, even though Gotze was the one that really qualifies for sanctions for insulting. In my opinion, overall, it did not affect the game so it doesn't have to be replayed, but I do think Gotze should receive a penalty for his actions.
Everyone agrees: NOT YET
B. Suggestions on Sanctions/Punishment/[If we can't agree: POLL/Vote]
Suggestions are based on rule abuse discussed in A
A first
Everyone agrees: NOT YET
C. Deciding on Sanctions/[If we can't agree: POLL/Vote]
A, B first
Everyone agrees: NOT YET
D. Statement to be published
We can also do this quick and dirty in Skype...
A, B, C first
Statement ready to be published/Everyone agrees: NOT YET