Interpretation of a match time rule
Oct 7, 2015 14:49:48 GMT 1
Sebastian, hesse, and 4 more like this
Post by lipton on Oct 7, 2015 14:49:48 GMT 1
I need to learn to write shorter messages to forum. But I want to point attention to a rule that isn’t clear at all to most people if anybody. I’m talking about when we play the matches. The league rules say:
I was added to admin chat (don’t ask why, I’m not sure even myself, because I’m not an admin, but this isn’t my point now), and based on the discussion there, the interpretation of ability to delay or to get a deflose no matter what is far from being clear. According to rules the team that was ready in scheduled time in Wednesday can claim a deflose to opposing team, or they can be fair, and play the game before Sunday games. This is clear. But in Sunday rules can be interpreted in two ways. Either you get a defwin no matter what if your team was ready and opponent team was gone (even if you want to be fair and want to play later) because it’s 100% fixed, or you can interpret it so that you can use a delay and play it later but before Wednesday games.
So according to the strict interpretation of rules ALL games that haven’t been played yet, should be declared as a deflose to either one or both teams. Maybe everyone doesn’t believe me so here is reasoning for each round.
Round 1:
The Next Generation – Dream Team
--> should have been played 27th September at the latest
Round 3:
Chudo’s Kids – Nothing 2 Lose
--> should have been played 27th September, no chance for a delay
Round 5:
Squirtle Squad – The Next Generation
Drunken Bears – Nothing 2 Lose
--> should have been played 4th October at the latest
Round 6:
The Next Generation – Chudo’s Kids
Revolt – Squirtle Squad
--> should have been played 4th October at the latest
Round 7:
Chudo’s Kids – Revolt
4Fun – The Next Generation
Resurrec†ed – Dream Team
Mosonka Eagles – Nothing 2 Lose
--> should have been played 4th October, no chance for a delay
Round 8:
Nothing 2 Lose – The Future
Dream Team – Mosonka Eagles
Revolt – 4Fun
Squirtle Squad – Chudo’s Kids
--> should have been played 4th October, no chance for a delay
All together 14 deflosses. If we interpret the rule in the more gentle way, round 7 and 8 matches can still be played today before other matches, if it’s ok to both teams. But others are deflosses for sure. 6+ deflosses in total this way. But none of them has been marked as a deflose to Fixtures & Results yet. I haven’t been bold enough to do that, and maybe admins feel the same. I don’t know.
On the other hand I know many teams want to be fair and don’t want to take a defwin but find the winner by playing. For example yesterday evening some people tried to arrange official matches in captains Skype chat that according to rules aren’t counted as official matches. So at least to my mind came questions like “the match isn't marked as a deflose to stats yet, so are these counted as officials anyway?”, “or do they play it for nothing?“, “am I bold enough to put a deflose there (yes, I have the power=link to Google Doc to change stats and all, deal with it)?”, “will I be hated if I do that?”, “which teams should have the deflose anyway, both of them, or just one, which one?”, “why does everybody think I’m pidor?”, and so on. I believe many admins think these same questions.
Also I want to say one thing that is close to this subject. Delays have been looked after very loosely. At least it seems like that to me. There actually is a Google Doc listing delays, but every team has 0 delays there at the moment. I’m pretty sure there should be some delays. I have no idea which team has delayed which game, so I hope someone knows. Actually now that I’m writing this, I noticed that the “every team can use 4 delays during the season” has been left out of the rules, so maybe this is a useless paragraph.
Now the question is: do we want 14 (or 6+) deflosses in 48 matches? That’s about 29% (or 13+%).
What are our options? I can think of these:
1) Making an official statement that the strict approach to this rule is right, and declare all unplayed matches as a deflose to one or both teams.
2) Making an official statement that the gentle approach to this rule is right, and declare all unplayed matches from rounds 1-6 as a deflose to one or both teams, and giving time for unplayed games in rounds 7-8 to be played today before other matches, IF it’s ok to both teams.
3) Ask what the situation with unplayed games is, and give them all a deadline when to play the games.
4) Change the rules so that the time that you can delay a game is longer, IF it’s ok to opposing team. But if the opposing team says no, it gets a defwin.
5) Change the rules so that every team can delay every match as long time as they want (for example to the very end of the season), IF it’s ok for the opposing team. But if the opposing team says no, it gets a defwin. Ok, this was only an extreme case of 4).
6) Something else
Personally I’d pick 1) or 2). It’s a lot of deflosses but it’s each team’s own fault. I think we need an official statement to this rule here in forum. There are too many interpretations now, and it doesn't help if this is discussed almost only in admin chat. I also wanted to point out to everybody which risk you take if your team isn’t available in Wednesday or Sunday. It’s not guaranteed that the opponent team is willing to play with you later. At least in Mosonka we’re dicks so we want defwins, because we pretend to have better things to do than to be ready for a game that isn’t played in fixed time. Sorry N2L and DT.
Anyway I think we also need more transparency. Maybe we could use a guy who pretty actively asks in captain Skype chat and maybe in forum too what is the situation with unplayed games. All he needs to do is to ask in Wednesday and Sunday after the games (or in Thursday and Monday) “hey, have these matches been played?” “ok, that’s a shame, do you want to be fair and play the game later, or do you want to be a dick and take a defwin now?”, “oh, you want a defwin, ok, send me some proof that you had at least 3 players available in the match time, and I’ll put you a defwin”, or “oh, you want to be fair, have you scheduled the game already, when will you play it? Just remember to play and submit it before the games in Sunday (or if we happen to change rules whatever the deadline is)”. And so on. And then declare publicly which games have been determined as a deflose and why. This way none of the games would remain “hanging” as they are now, everything is more open and everyone should understand what’s going on. Now this all is too much guessing and no one really knows the destiny of all unplayed matches. I can be this guy if needed.
I might have lost my initial point to too many words here, but I hope someone read this. It would be great to finally get clarity to this subject. Sorry if I revealed something that shouldn’t have been revealed from the mysterious adminland. Also I hope someone understands the risks now of not having the team ready in fixed times. You must have agreed to play later or you take a risk of a deflose.
- 2 Sunday games are 100% fixed. They will be played against Bjorn's Team at 18.30 CET and 19.00 CET and the rest will be played 20.00 CET and 20.30 CET, except the livestream Game at 21.00 CET.
- Then we have 2 Wednesday Games, which are fixed at Wednesday (same Times like Sunday-Games, no special CL-Times), but if both caps agree to play at another day/time of the week, they can do that without using a delay.
- A match is allowed to start maximal 15 minutes after the fixed scheduled time. After 15 minutes, the opponent team will receive the automatic delay if they are ready to play.
- If Team A take the delay for a game on Wednesday, you have time till the next gameday (Sunday). If Team B can’t play till this gameday (in this case: Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday before 20 CET), team A will get the deflose even they were able to play at the other days, because Team A is responsible for this delay, as Team B was able to play on Wednesday.
I was added to admin chat (don’t ask why, I’m not sure even myself, because I’m not an admin, but this isn’t my point now), and based on the discussion there, the interpretation of ability to delay or to get a deflose no matter what is far from being clear. According to rules the team that was ready in scheduled time in Wednesday can claim a deflose to opposing team, or they can be fair, and play the game before Sunday games. This is clear. But in Sunday rules can be interpreted in two ways. Either you get a defwin no matter what if your team was ready and opponent team was gone (even if you want to be fair and want to play later) because it’s 100% fixed, or you can interpret it so that you can use a delay and play it later but before Wednesday games.
So according to the strict interpretation of rules ALL games that haven’t been played yet, should be declared as a deflose to either one or both teams. Maybe everyone doesn’t believe me so here is reasoning for each round.
Round 1:
The Next Generation – Dream Team
--> should have been played 27th September at the latest
Round 3:
Chudo’s Kids – Nothing 2 Lose
--> should have been played 27th September, no chance for a delay
Round 5:
Squirtle Squad – The Next Generation
Drunken Bears – Nothing 2 Lose
--> should have been played 4th October at the latest
Round 6:
The Next Generation – Chudo’s Kids
Revolt – Squirtle Squad
--> should have been played 4th October at the latest
Round 7:
Chudo’s Kids – Revolt
4Fun – The Next Generation
Resurrec†ed – Dream Team
Mosonka Eagles – Nothing 2 Lose
--> should have been played 4th October, no chance for a delay
Round 8:
Nothing 2 Lose – The Future
Dream Team – Mosonka Eagles
Revolt – 4Fun
Squirtle Squad – Chudo’s Kids
--> should have been played 4th October, no chance for a delay
All together 14 deflosses. If we interpret the rule in the more gentle way, round 7 and 8 matches can still be played today before other matches, if it’s ok to both teams. But others are deflosses for sure. 6+ deflosses in total this way. But none of them has been marked as a deflose to Fixtures & Results yet. I haven’t been bold enough to do that, and maybe admins feel the same. I don’t know.
On the other hand I know many teams want to be fair and don’t want to take a defwin but find the winner by playing. For example yesterday evening some people tried to arrange official matches in captains Skype chat that according to rules aren’t counted as official matches. So at least to my mind came questions like “the match isn't marked as a deflose to stats yet, so are these counted as officials anyway?”, “or do they play it for nothing?“, “am I bold enough to put a deflose there (yes, I have the power=link to Google Doc to change stats and all, deal with it)?”, “will I be hated if I do that?”, “which teams should have the deflose anyway, both of them, or just one, which one?”, “why does everybody think I’m pidor?”, and so on. I believe many admins think these same questions.
Also I want to say one thing that is close to this subject. Delays have been looked after very loosely. At least it seems like that to me. There actually is a Google Doc listing delays, but every team has 0 delays there at the moment. I’m pretty sure there should be some delays. I have no idea which team has delayed which game, so I hope someone knows. Actually now that I’m writing this, I noticed that the “every team can use 4 delays during the season” has been left out of the rules, so maybe this is a useless paragraph.
Now the question is: do we want 14 (or 6+) deflosses in 48 matches? That’s about 29% (or 13+%).
What are our options? I can think of these:
1) Making an official statement that the strict approach to this rule is right, and declare all unplayed matches as a deflose to one or both teams.
2) Making an official statement that the gentle approach to this rule is right, and declare all unplayed matches from rounds 1-6 as a deflose to one or both teams, and giving time for unplayed games in rounds 7-8 to be played today before other matches, IF it’s ok to both teams.
3) Ask what the situation with unplayed games is, and give them all a deadline when to play the games.
4) Change the rules so that the time that you can delay a game is longer, IF it’s ok to opposing team. But if the opposing team says no, it gets a defwin.
5) Change the rules so that every team can delay every match as long time as they want (for example to the very end of the season), IF it’s ok for the opposing team. But if the opposing team says no, it gets a defwin. Ok, this was only an extreme case of 4).
6) Something else
Personally I’d pick 1) or 2). It’s a lot of deflosses but it’s each team’s own fault. I think we need an official statement to this rule here in forum. There are too many interpretations now, and it doesn't help if this is discussed almost only in admin chat. I also wanted to point out to everybody which risk you take if your team isn’t available in Wednesday or Sunday. It’s not guaranteed that the opponent team is willing to play with you later. At least in Mosonka we’re dicks so we want defwins, because we pretend to have better things to do than to be ready for a game that isn’t played in fixed time. Sorry N2L and DT.
Anyway I think we also need more transparency. Maybe we could use a guy who pretty actively asks in captain Skype chat and maybe in forum too what is the situation with unplayed games. All he needs to do is to ask in Wednesday and Sunday after the games (or in Thursday and Monday) “hey, have these matches been played?” “ok, that’s a shame, do you want to be fair and play the game later, or do you want to be a dick and take a defwin now?”, “oh, you want a defwin, ok, send me some proof that you had at least 3 players available in the match time, and I’ll put you a defwin”, or “oh, you want to be fair, have you scheduled the game already, when will you play it? Just remember to play and submit it before the games in Sunday (or if we happen to change rules whatever the deadline is)”. And so on. And then declare publicly which games have been determined as a deflose and why. This way none of the games would remain “hanging” as they are now, everything is more open and everyone should understand what’s going on. Now this all is too much guessing and no one really knows the destiny of all unplayed matches. I can be this guy if needed.
I might have lost my initial point to too many words here, but I hope someone read this. It would be great to finally get clarity to this subject. Sorry if I revealed something that shouldn’t have been revealed from the mysterious adminland. Also I hope someone understands the risks now of not having the team ready in fixed times. You must have agreed to play later or you take a risk of a deflose.